Response to “The Fantasy of Being Thin”

Amen! Living a healthy lifestyle will make you happier, more successful, and more fun to be around, which is turns makes you able to “be all you can be”. The notion that weight loss is futile is lazy and pessimistic. Yes, diets are futile because you have to change your lifestyle. A very close friend of mine lost 35lbs over the past year through lots of sweat and as a result left a job she felt stuck in, is more confident, and has met lots of new people. Coincidence…I think not.

I actually think you and she are saying the same thing.

I started writing this comment four times over. The first time, I talked about how poisonous the beauty industry is, and how women have unnatural ideas about what it means to be a healthy weight. The second time, I pointed to medical research showing that conventional ideas — doctor supported — of “healthy weight” are, in fact, not optimal (gain about 15lbs, then call back). The third time I started, I talked about all the things that can happen to make women gain weight or maintain a high weight that have nothing to do with the self control you so ardently espouse.

None of those approaches expressed what I really feel about this issue, so here it is, in plain words:

Shit articles like this one perpetuate the myth that all fat people need is a little self control, and I expected better from someone as smart and nuanced as you.

Ellie, I think you’re reading the wrong things into the article, but even so, who couldn’t benefit from some self-discipline and self-control?

I don’t see that as an issue about a number on the scale so much as an issue about perspective and taking control of your life. Has anyone ever regretted their decision to eat healthy and get regular exercise? Regardless of whether you look any different afterwards, it helps your life as a whole.

I’m just going to say that I was so consumed by this discussion that I told someone leaving my office to have a “weak goodend” instead of a “good weekend”.

Oprah, salads and the gym - are you planning on becoming a soccer mom anytime soon Sarah?

I agree with some of what you’re saying, but your statements are not completely backed by science for all people.

The New York Times recently reported that being moderately overweight (like 20-30 pounds) is actually correlated with longer lifespans, not shorter. To me, this suggests that our definition of “overweight” may be skewed lower than is healthy. Here’s the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/health/07fat.html

And there is a small portion of the population that does seem to be predestined to be obese. There have been scientific studies done on people heavy since infancy, and some remain overweight even when put on 1,200 calorie diets and exercise regimes.

I post this, not as some fat apologist, but as a person who has never been outside of the official healthy weight range and who currently has a BMI toward the bottom of the “good” zone. My weight ticks up when I don’t exercise or when I eat badly, but it has always been very easy for me keep it down again by exercising some control.

I don’t buy the idea that because weight management is easy for me, it must be easy for everyone or that it’s a matter of will power. For most overweight people, lifestyle change will make a difference and willpower does come in to play. But if they are only slightly overweight and they are otherwise healthy, perhaps they’re better off just maintaining their current weight status. And for some very overweight people, no amount of willpower will ever make a difference.

I am willing to bet that you and pretty much everyone has met at least one person who ate like there was no tomorrow and was always thin.

Did you ever accuse them of being a closet bulemic? Probably not. You probably just accepted at face value that you were dealing with a person whose body processed food quickly. In fact, I’d be surprised if you didn’t comment on it, in a “Ooooh, you’re so lucky! I wish I could eat everything I wanted and stay thin!” kind of way.

Yet when it comes to overweight people, with the exception of hypothyroid sufferers, they are all overeating and not exercising.

While I personally don’t care how people take care of their personal health issues (I’m a strong believer in body autonomy), I can’t fault a person for encouraging physical activity and eating decently. Why does that HAVE to result in weight loss in order for you to see it as healthy and a positive lifestyle change? If it doesn’t, is it any less healthy?

I’ve met thin people who are very, very unhealthy and fat people who are in much better physical shape than I am (I’m considered a “normal” BMI).

Kate Harding wasn’t telling anyone to “roll over and quit.” I think she was saying the complete opposite. She’s encouraging people to be radically accepting of the person that they are, including their size, and live thier lives accordingly. She’s telling people to stop hiding in their homes because they’re too scared to face a world where people will comment “Fat pig!” to them all day long. She’s telling people to stop fantasizing about a life they could have if they were only a size 4 and go out and live their lives now, as a size 22 or whatever. My sense is that you totally missed what she was saying because you believe that dieting should be successful and that the 96% who it fails were just doing it wrong. All you could see of the post was that.

Now unlike Kate, I am not anti-dieting. Not because it particularly works (a 96% failure rate should say something about its effectiveness), but because it’s just not any of my business. I consider dieting a very personal choice that people make for a whole host of reasons, many bad and some good. But once again, it’s simply not my business what other people do to their own bodies.

Well, fat people and their lifestyles aren’t your business. Even if you believe that they’re all gluttons who eat non-stop donuts and never get off the couch, why do you care? Why do you think that thin people are “better” than fat people? Why do you think that a person who is okay with being fat is somehow giving up on themselves? Personally, I think in a society that tells us 24/7 that thin is in, it takes great emotional strength to love yourself no matter what you weigh.

If you want to be a better person do something to help make the world a better place. Help the poor. Help the elderly and infirm. There are all sorts of ways to make a difference. If you “succeeded” in making your backside smaller, good for you. But don’t delude yourselves. It’s not a big deal. It’s not a great accomplishment. It does nothing to better society. It doesn’t make you a good person.

It just makes you a thinner person. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Sarah, looking at your photo, you and I have the same body type (teeny) so I don’t know if we are “qualified” to judge people who blog about fat acceptance. I have been to kate’s blog before and it seems like a bad idea to comment, especially since they’ve heard your comment before and are quite hostile about it.

I started smoking when I was 14 and I was always telling myself how smoking was a part of who I was and how I accepted my love of cigarettes. (gross, right?) But having children distracted me quite a bit and I don’t smoke like I used to. I still sometimes smoke because every single day I think about it and wish it were glamorous and not unhealthy. Every single day I want a cigarette, but most days I don’t have one. I used to have several a day because I was in the smoking acceptance mindframe. So, I see what you are saying–change what you don’t like about yourself. But I think your post sounds smug, and references to Oprah make it even more smug. Oprah always has a panel of experts who know all the answers and can teach you to think your way to prosperity, for just $19.95 and a lot of other bullshit.

Props to you, though, for being brave enough to post this response.

I think there is a failure in this discussion to make a distinction between dieting and diet. Dieting implies something, often extreme, that you do for a short period of time. Diet is what you habitually put into your body.

Dieting may fail for most people, but everyone has a diet and everyone can make a decision about how to change that diet. If you drink forty ounces of soda every day, you can decide to stop doing that and your body will be better off for that decision, without a doubt.

As for whether or not fat people and what they do with their bodies is anyone’s business, I guess it isn’t. I guess nothing beyond what we each do with our own lives is our business. But that doesn’t mean we’re not entitled to our opinions about what other people do, just as it doesn’t mean we can’t voice those opinions. It also doesn’t mean we can put an end to any discussion by saying it would be better if we were helping society in some vague way.

If that article was espousing a “radical acceptance”, I have to wonder where that acceptance ends. Say I have a drinking problem (to which I would respond, in slurred speech, ‘Oh you just know everything, don’t you?’). Should I radically accept that part of myself, or try to change it?

The fact is that eating well and exercising regularly will help you to feel better in general. Exercise works better than drugs or therapy for most depressives, it’s just that it’s harder to get out and do some work than it is to pop a pill.

It isn’t about what you look like at the end of the day, I agree on that point. There are many factors out of our control there. But we all have responsibility for our own lives and what they become, and our health is part of it. Maybe we should radically accept that.

I’m wrestling with all of this right now myself and it’s not been pretty. I’ve been fat all my life, yo-yo’d up and down more times than I can count, and am in the middle of another relapse now.

People who see me see a fat woman and I have learned to read their reactions and try to make myself as small as possible to keep out of their way and not be vilified because of my size. No one who looks at me knows that I’ve managed to keep off 55 lbs from my highest weight. I’m just the fat one.

Do I know that losing weight and exercising are the healthy choice for me? Of course I do, I’m not stupid and I’ve been living the diet merry-go-round for over 40 years. It’s not easy and yes, people do it successfully. 90% gain back what they lose, usually in silence and pain.

I want to accept myself but not accept my weight, to not have that hold me back from being who I am as a person. I want to be healthier and more flexible and those are small, manageable goals. I’m just so scared of failing again that it’s sometimes paralyzing.

I am a regular reader of Kate’s blog and saw this link there and clicked it…I may not even post my comment because I’m sure it wouldn’t change any minds, but somehow I just feel like I need to put it out there.

I agree with Rose, Kate wasn’t telling anyone to roll over and quit, in fact just the opposite. She was saying live your life, make yourself happy, and don’t wait until you reach some magical point in your lives. In this case, the magical point was thin, but it could be anything…waiting until the kids are grown, until you make more money, are more confident…the list could go on forever. Too many people waste their lives waiting for the perfect moment to begin living, but the truth is that that perfect moment isn’t coming; life is right now. If you read through the comments you see people putting their entire lives on hold until they are thin, and that is just plain wrong. Regardless of what you think about size-acceptance, I doubt you believe that anyone should put off swimming, buying pretty clothes, looking for a new job, falling in love, dancing, taking up a sport, writing a novel, or making new friends until they are thin. And that’s what that post was about: believing that, regardless of your size, you are a worthwhile human being who deserves to live a happy life, thin or fat.

Also, to everyone out there, those who comment and those who did not, who believe that all the fat people out there are just eating too much and sitting around on their behinds all day I say this: you are wrong. Are some fat people unhealthy eaters? Yes, just as some thin people all. Are some fat people sedentary? Of course; just as some thin people are. I know a lot of people out in the world think that fat people are just doing something wrong. Either we are not dieting or we are not dieting hard enough, or are doing the wrong kind of diet. We are not exercising or we are doing the wrong kind of exercise. Or we are eating out of control portions and we just don’t know it or don’t care. Or, if we claim a healthy diet (complete with acceptable portion sizes) and a normal exercise routine, and still don’t lose weight than many would suggest that we are either lying or might grudgingly concede some medical or genetic influence. However, if you look around you will find fat yoga masters, fat vegans and vegetarians, fat athletes, and fat people with diet and exercise routines that look like many of yours.

Fat people are as diverse as any other group as any, and the only thing that makes us different is that we are fat. And all of us, no matter what our diet, exercise, or lifestyle, deserve the same rights and respect that is afforded to anyone else.

Thanks for giving me the space to comment on this. As I said, I doubt I will change any firmly made up minds (just I wouldn’t expect anyone to change mine), but perhaps I have at least given anyone reading something to marinate on.

If you are exercising regularly and eating right everyday and if you don’t have any thyroid issues, you will not be overweight. Sure, it might be harder for some people and easier for others, but that’s it: calories in and calories out

Sarah - here’s the problem I see with your post: You are erroneously conflating good health with thinness. The two can be related, but they can also be mutually exclusive. One’s lifestyle, not one’s weight, is a more accurate indicator of overall health. In essence, it’s fitness, not fatness that’s key.

If weight was a simple issue of calories in/calories burned, we’d be a nation full of thin people. But it’s not so simple, and such simplification of such a vast and complex issue only goes to show the stereotypes held by the one making the assumption. For more about this, read here or a better article, here.

I agree with you that people should work actively to improve their health - if they want to. But we need to separate the idea that fat = unhealthy, and thin = healthy. It is entirely possible to be fat and healthy, just as it is to be thin and unhealthy. Conflating the two does little good to either group.

I think this is a very balanced piece of writing.
Never give up on yourself, but work on other aspects too, eat right, exercise…you have covered everything and written it well too.

Yes, of course you should never give up on trying to change something about yourself that you dislike.

But have you ever been just obsessed about losing weight to the point that you convince yourself that your entire life would be different if you simply weighed less? I think she was getting at the fact that this sort of thinking can be a HUGE energy drain and diversion and distraction from what you should be doing in life–namely: living.

Making those continual excuses that you won’t bother to travel to New Zealand or take that dancing class simply because it will just…be…so…much…better…when I’m a Thin Person. That there is a tragic waste of one’s finite lifetime.

And so if you’re fat, and you’ve been fat for a while and you’ve been making these excuses for a while, really, you’ll be doing yourself a huge favor if you just stop making the excuses and do the stuff you want to do and not let your fatness get in the way. That doesn’t mean you should stop attempting to lose the weight, it just means you should accept yourself in the present and not as a work in progress, stop holding yourself hostage on account of your dress size, and you’ll find yourself to be a whole lot more fulfilled and happier.

You’ll fill the hole, as Bob Greene would put it.

I know everyone is upset here, but I think this is a good post. You’re just expressing your opinion, that’s all.
Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but a lot of these “fat acceptance” sites actually say some nasty things about slim people. As long as your doctor says you’re healthy, no matter what weight you’re at, then good for you.
PS: don’t follow the BMI at all! It’s totally inaccurate!

I’d like to chime in and just reitterate that what Sarah is talking about is taking responsibility for your life. For some people, responsibility for their health means blaming their parents or DNA. I don’t think that’s real responsibility. And it doesn’t make anyone fell better - you just end up still hating yourself for what you “can’t control.”

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Testimony isn’t everything, but I’m just going to add my story to this debate:

The last time I was a size 6, I was probably 11 years old. I’m not obese, but I’ve felt the yo-yo effect most of my life. Right now, I’m at a size 12. I’d say that my “healthy” size is between an 8 and a 10. If I get there sometime soon, that would be awesome. But I’m not going to beat myself up for what size I am. Rather, I feel guilty for when I don’t eat healthy or when I fail to exercize regularly. And I can do something about that, even if I don’t always put forth the effort.

For a long time, I just rode my metabolism and ate whatever I wanted until my pants felt too tight. Now, I realize that when I gain weight, it’s not my age/gender/dna’s fault.

It’s my fault! I hate gyms, so I quit mine a few months back and returned to walking several times a week. I was doing really well until daylight savings time hit, and it’s no longer safe in my neighborhood to walk at night. (And I won’t get up at 6 a.m. to exercize, that is something I’ve learned I cannot discipline myself to do. I like - and need - sleep too much!) I used to do yoga once a week but had to quit that because of my work schedule. And I really miss it!

Now I’m back to my 10-15 lbs over my normal weight. I’m not happy about it, but I realize that it’s my fault for being here. I’m going to join another gym at the end of the month to get back on track.

And as for diet, that may be the simplest thing we can control, even if our schedules get in the way of regular exercize. Eating smaller portions of organic, homemade, and low-processed foods make for a better diet. We all fall off this path - but oh don’t we feel it when we do! I’ve found the easiest way to stay on board is to always have groceries on hand, and prepare meals-on-the-go in advance (make your breakfast and lunch for work the night before after you cook dinner.) I let my pantry go low over the holidays and so I’ve been eating out (which means eating unhealthy, for me) all week. So it will be a grocery store trip for me today, and a healthy next 3 weeks!

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There’s no quick fix to anything, but taking control of your life really does make for a better living. I may be hit by a bus tomorrow, but it’s foolish to treat my body like it’s a garbage bag just because “life’s too short.”

I really appreciated your response to the post. I had an experience that, perhaps, combines the two points of view. After a life history that included anorexia as a young adult and obesity a decade later, and then years of yo-yo dieting, I found that it was only through acceptance that I finally lost weight (slowly and entirely naturally). My post about it, and how I think it happened called “Yoga and Weight” is on my blog, if you’d like to check it out.

I don’t agree with your calorie statement. That is, two people could eat the exact same and exercise the exact same and they still probably won’t weigh the same! Some people really can eat healthy and exercise and still be fat.

Bodies just aren’t that reliable.

I also think we are too obsessed with thinness at the expense of areas of personal development that would better affect the world. If there were half as many shows on emotional or spiritual development as there are on losing weight then we’d probably be a much happier society.

Finally, if someone states that they are happy being of whatever weight, I don’t think you should say they are always lying or deluded. Sometimes they do love their body and sometimes they are deluded. But you can’t always know for them.

And even if they are unhappy, there are many other aspects of life they may be focused on. Pushing the whole “exercise and eat healthy!” thing on other people is often more about you then it is about them.

seaswell, awesomeness. I totally almost put a little winking emote at the end of that sentence, but then thought better of myself.

Seaswell, I love your blog and respect what you have to say, but on this one, IMO you are dead wrong.

I confess, I have not read all the comments, so I may be reiterating other statements, but there are some serious fallacies here, chief among them being the calories in-calories out theory. When you look at human metabolism, you discover that there are lots of ways energy is used, and only one of those is under conscious control — physical exertion. We can’t control all the other factors of metabolism.
According to Weight Watchers, which works basically on the calories in-calories out theory, in order to lose weight, I should be eating about 25 points a day. I average about 18. I am in the mid-high activity range. Somehow, magically, I still weigh 284 pounds. Funny how that works.
Another major fallacy — fat=unhealthy, thinner=healthier. One of the comments did a lovely job of explaining that one, so I won’t repeat.

The biggest issue I have is with the idea that fat is something that needs to be fixed. The primary reason people think fat is bad is because our culture tells us it is, and that culture is largely shaped by groups and individuals who have a financial interest in making people want to be thinner. It is a mistake to make a value judgement based on the opinion of someone who wants to make money off of you.

There are some parts about being fat that are hard, but those are about other people, not me. It is unpleasant to be made fun of, but that is the problem of the mocker, not me. It’s no fun when I can’t find clothes that I like, but I don’t see that as something wrong with me, I see that as a flaw in the fashion industry, to decide to ignore an entire segment of the population because they fail to meet some artificial beauty standard. I am a happy fat person. I am a size 26 and I love my body. We do exist.

I do think, though, that while thinness does not equal healthiness, obesity will often equal unhealthiness

Perhaps, but keep in mind, good health is not a moral imperative to be treated like a human being. There are lots of people who aren’t in good health due to choices they make (smoking, tanning beds, unsafe sex, etc..) and they are never denied basic, human rights. Fat people are. Basically, what it comes down to is, it’ our bodies, our choices. Period. It’s no one’s business what people weigh or what they choose to eat.

In response to Rachel, I have to ask, what basic human rights are fat people being denied?

http://yoursacredself.blogspot.com/2007/12/overweight-and-starving.html

I found this to be a helpful blog post; for what it’s worth I’ll post the link.

Seaswell: Ah, but you’re still assuming that fat = unhealthy, so therefore what others eat and what they weigh are our collective business, since we’re helping to pay for costs of weight-related health care. I don’t think weight is an indicator of one’s health, and as recent studies show, being overweight is actually optimal for good health. Many of these so-called studies that purport to show health dangers from being overweight are usually funded by weight loss companies and big pharma who both have a vested financial interest in seeing fatness declared a health risk in need of their services.

The Fighting Life: Fat people can and are regularly denied equal access in employment, education, access to public accommodations, adequate health care, adoption, and housing.

Rachel, I think you’re stretching it a bit. You’re saying fat people are “regularly denied” these things? To use your example of education, are you saying that fat people get turned away from public schools and colleges because of their weight?

And when you mention “big pharma” organizations that are encouraging people to lose weight and get more exercise, I kind of see your point, but you also have to take into account groups like the American Heart Association. They’ve called for Americans to get more exercise, eat healthier, and lose weight, too. When they we’re in trouble because the rate of childhood obesity in America has doubled in the past twenty years, I don’t think they’re doing it to sell bottles of Hydroxycut.

I’m all for positive body image, but we can’t kid ourselves that obesity is not a problem in this country.

TFL: In reference to your example, see NAAFA’s docket on the history and status of fat-related discrimination in education.

Actually, obesity really isn’t a problem, at least not a problem in the clinical context which you refer to. According to NY Times science writer and author Gina Kolata, “Americans on average have gotten heavier over the years, but the average increase is 5 to 7 pounds. It’s greater at the high end of the weight range. Women are no heavier today than they were in the 1990’s.”

The above is from an interview I conducted with Kolata on my website.

I find your mention of the American Heart Association’s caveat to lose weight rather ironic. You see, it wasn’t until I lost weight, 175 pounds in fact, that I developed a heart condition. Physically and mentally, I was healthier at 300 pounds than I was at 125 pounds.

The AHA is still operating under assumptions held for more than a century that overeating and inactivity are to blame for obesity. I’m not denying that these issues are or can be related, but I do think as recent studies continue to show, obesity is a far more complex issue than that of gluttony and sloth. As Kolata said in the interview, “Maybe someday society will accept what science is finding and not demand that everyone meet weight standards that are only achievable by the very few.”

Poor nutrition and a sedentary lifestyle do cause health problems - in people of all sizes. This is why it is so crucial to distinguish between the two. Not all obese people eat poorly and are sedentary; not all thin people eat right and exercise. Basing assumptions of one’s diet and lifestyle on weight alone doesn’t help either fat or thin people to become healthier.

Furthermore, I think all people, regardless of weight, should be encouraged to eat healthy and exercise, regardless if such activities results in weight loss or not. The benchmark of good health is not necessarily the falling numbers on our digital scales.

The underlying tenet in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT- a behavior therapy based on zen buddhism) is that acceptance leads to change. For example, someone who cuts themselves cannot change that behavior until they accept that they are participating in a self-destructive behavior that needs to stop. Therefore, I agree that before meaningful weight change happens, it is important to realize: yes, I am 30% over my desired weight. This is a fact that I accept. What can I go given this reality.

While I’m unsure if the original author meant that type of acceptance, I fully agree with her sentiment. Before we can make changes we have to know specifically, and be prepared to work hard at changing, the current reality.

CRAP! I was looking EVERYWHERE for the “Fantasy” article and didn’t even know u linked it…

I’ve lost over 120 pounds in a little over 2 years. What a difference! I can do sooo much more with my body and keep up with the kids alot better which is good, b/c their both under 5. Cuter clothes, more confidence, smile at the mirror (SOMETIMES!!). U can read about it on my thing if u want…I just stopped with the junk, some forced calorie restriction, and ALOT more activity.

I don’t EVER IN MY LIFE want 2 b big like I was again and it would be oh-so-nice if I can get rid of this sagging skin naturally since it’ll take a DAMN miracle 2 ever have $$$ for tummy tuck, much less a tube tie..I’m done with having kids, too..these fuckers are expensive and life/time-consuming. I finally get semi-thin and cute (’cuz I need more work) and I can’t enjoy it fully! Stuck with Hubby n’ kids, but I guess it’s better this way b/c I’d much rather have a man who LOOooved me when I was (very) fat and still loves me now. And at least my kids are healthy, beautiful, and smart.

Whatevers…